One of my biggest concerns right now has to do with illegal immigration. It infuriates me that there are people out there actually HELPING these people cross our boarders illegally. I hear a lot of people say, “What’s the big deal? We have a big country… what will a few illegals hurt?” They hurt a lot.
I heard on the radio the other day that 20% of our rising healthcare costs are due to illegal immigrants using our emergency rooms and hospitals with no money and no insurance. Those that manage to get jobs here, end up sending a lot of that money back to their homes and families. So not only are they taking our jobs, raising our healthcare costs, but the money they do make, doesn’t even get put back into our economy! In addition, because they do not qualify for welfare or food stamps, they take advantage of our food banks and other charitable centers. So not only are they taking away from our economy – they are taking away from our nation’s legal poor.
New studies are also showing that illegals comprise a large percent of our nation’s crime. One article I read spoke of the crime in California:
“A full 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide, which totaled 1,500 last year in Los Angeles, pointed to illegal aliens. Soberingly, two thirds of all fugitive felony warrants, totaling a horrifying 17,000, were for illegal aliens. To make matters worse, in 1995 a report showed that 60% of the 20,000-strong 18th Street gang in southern California was composed of illegal aliens. That gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia on drug distribution schemes, extortion and drive-by assassinations.” Source: http://www.rense.com/general48/comp.htm
I’m sick of it. When are we going to stand up for ourselves and take our country back? We have enough problems with our own citizens, we should not have to deal with others’.
Please don't take this as a personal attack, as I do not mean this as such. Just a friendly exchange of ideas/opinions.
We all know the problems associated with illegal immigrants. Security, for one, is especially important in today's society. Also, it isn't "fair" to spend taxpayer money to handle various aspects of their existence.
However, this is a problem that will not go away. We will never be able to "send them back to their own country". The logistics, for one, are near impossible (and I would argue this as an anti-American policy). Besides, who are we to say that these folks aren't allowed? These are people that, for the most part, want a better life in America. These are people that take many of our crap-jobs and still consider themselves lucky to be in our country. I think Thomas Jefferson (et al) said it best with ".. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.."
Finally, I think it's hypocritical to claim ourselves as a "moral compass for the world" and turn our backs on those people that want to live in our claimed superior society. I do not think that there is intentional malice from the aliens to fleece our government. They want a better life for themselves and their family. I cannot blame them for that.
Fiscally, yes, there is a problem associated with illegal immigration. Morally, I cannot think of any good reason to "send them back". Remember that the country to "take back" was founded by people that did not want to live under an oppressive ruling body. We took actions to become a free country to allow others the opportunity to thrive and flourish.
Kramer, No offense taken. Although I agree with you to a certain extent, there comes a time when we have to learn to say no -- for our own self-preservation.
Look at it this way: There is a family of four, the dad works and makes $100,000 a year. One day, a child appears on the doorstep with no mom or dad. The mother says, "this poor child! We have to take him in and feed and clothe him!" The family of four becomes 5. Pretty soon, child after child appear on the doorstep and the parents have 100 children to feed. Their own blood children start to suffer and starve, and before you know it, Social Services comes and takes ALL the children away.
If we keep allowing illegals into our country and providing them healthcare and jobs, pretty soon our own citizens will suffer. I have no problems with LEGAL immigration -- people that come to work in our country, pay taxes and abide by the law. However, if this continues, we will have a much larger issue to deal with.
I do agree with your last argument to a point. The way the system is currently structured, there is a limit to the number of babies that we can support. I think the system is flawed, though. This is a tangential argument that I won't delve into, however I think re-vamping health care and public outreach to become universally accessible would be the way to go. We don't complain about illegals abusing light from lampposts and I don't think we would complain about them using healthcare if it were universally accessible. And yes, this would translate into higher taxes for all (who pay them), but it would solve more problems than create (I think). Granted, this opens up a can of worms that shouldn't be discussed in the same breath (and free light hardly compares to free healthcare). I'm just throwing it out there.
Also, keep in mind that these people go to great lengths to make it into the country. No amount of security will prevent that. You can spend taxpayer money to support these people in a positive way or you can spend the same money to keep people out. Obviously security is a concern. I do understand that. I just think that between spending money to keep them out and spending money to help them stay and eventually become legal, I would lean towards helping them. In this case, I don't think that a few bad apples spoil the bunch.
You can't live in a free society without accepting some of the bad with the good. I just think that "doing something about it" at this point would be wasted energy (read money), since many would take the same lengths to make it back into the country.
Hmm... I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You're starting to delve into Socialist theories, which our forefathers were definately against.
Although I'm not necessarily promoting a mass deportation (that would be a nightmare), I am for securing our borders, having larger penalties for employers that hire illegals, and other items that help to secure our nation a little more.
Did you know that illegals are counted in the population statistics when they decide how many Representitives in the House there should be? Isn't this a slap in the face of democracy, when the numbers of our elected officials are based off of illegal aliens?
"These new immigrants arrive from totally incompatible cultures. They are the seeds of cancer sewn into our social fabric that will eventually destroy our nation. Again, when the rate of immigration exceeds the rate of assimilation, it is a recipe for the annihilation of our civilization."
Further:
"No country on earth today is successful ith ‘multiculturalism’. It’s a lie, it’s a proven failure, it’s dangerous, it’s deadly and it’s growing in America."
Finally:
"Let’s shut down America’s borders. Let’s stop all immigration. Let’s give ourselves a break. Let’s take a moratorium. Our citizens deserve it. There is no immigration allowed in China, India, Bangladesh, Russia, Japan, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Turkey and MOST other countries. Are they suffering race riots, car burnings, language crisis and other problems from immigration? Nope!"
I find numbers and statistics coming from a fantatical xenophobe to be somewhat suspect.
Fact of the matter is, your beautiful South Riding home was built and is maintained on the back of cheap illegal labor; ask Jayson. No one here wants to do those jobs. If day laborers had unions and actually demanded what they deserved, the cost of labor would skyrocket and you, yes you, would pay for it. The way we're structured, we have a pull for cheap labor. As long as that pull exists, they'll keep coming.
Everyone has the right to a better life. So if I was in their shoes, I'd sure as hell come here, even if it meant minimal pay and life near the poverty line... as long as it was better than where I was.
The real problem is poverty, and that eclipses legals and illegals alike. But fighting poverty is socialist? I agree with Kramer; it's hypocritical for us to call ourselves a moral compass and not do our part to rectify poverty. The idea of social programs is very Christian, yet anti-republican. I am awed by that.
So yeah, "give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door." That is this nation... so, to talk of self-preservation in the face of this alleged attack on our way of life is somewhat myopic.
No, I'm not for shutting down our borders and not letting anyone in. Our country is built on immigration, and I think we should continue to do it. What we should NOT allow, is illegal immigration. The fact that millions of people are living here in our country, reaping the benefits of freedom and doing that tax-free, is not fair.
What about all those immigrants that follow the law and do things the legal way? Isn't that a slap in the face to them to allow illegals to continue to have a free ride?
Being a Christian does not mean you have to tolerate people breaking the law and abusing the system. Come in here legally, and then we'll talk about closing the poverty gap and healthcare issues.
9 comments:
why? expound!
She made her point, what's yours?
One of my biggest concerns right now has to do with illegal immigration. It infuriates me that there are people out there actually HELPING these people cross our boarders illegally. I hear a lot of people say, “What’s the big deal? We have a big country… what will a few illegals hurt?” They hurt a lot.
I heard on the radio the other day that 20% of our rising healthcare costs are due to illegal immigrants using our emergency rooms and hospitals with no money and no insurance. Those that manage to get jobs here, end up sending a lot of that money back to their homes and families. So not only are they taking our jobs, raising our healthcare costs, but the money they do make, doesn’t even get put back into our economy! In addition, because they do not qualify for welfare or food stamps, they take advantage of our food banks and other charitable centers. So not only are they taking away from our economy – they are taking away from our nation’s legal poor.
New studies are also showing that illegals comprise a large percent of our nation’s crime. One article I read spoke of the crime in California:
“A full 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide, which totaled 1,500 last year in Los Angeles, pointed to illegal aliens. Soberingly, two thirds of all fugitive felony warrants, totaling a horrifying 17,000, were for illegal aliens. To make matters worse, in 1995 a report showed that 60% of the 20,000-strong 18th Street gang in southern California was composed of illegal aliens. That gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia on drug distribution schemes, extortion and drive-by assassinations.” Source: http://www.rense.com/general48/comp.htm
I’m sick of it. When are we going to stand up for ourselves and take our country back? We have enough problems with our own citizens, we should not have to deal with others’.
Please don't take this as a personal attack, as I do not mean this as such. Just a friendly exchange of ideas/opinions.
We all know the problems associated with illegal immigrants. Security, for one, is especially important in today's society. Also, it isn't "fair" to spend taxpayer money to handle various aspects of their existence.
However, this is a problem that will not go away. We will never be able to "send them back to their own country". The logistics, for one, are near impossible (and I would argue this as an anti-American policy). Besides, who are we to say that these folks aren't allowed? These are people that, for the most part, want a better life in America. These are people that take many of our crap-jobs and still consider themselves lucky to be in our country. I think Thomas Jefferson (et al) said it best with ".. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.."
Finally, I think it's hypocritical to claim ourselves as a "moral compass for the world" and turn our backs on those people that want to live in our claimed superior society. I do not think that there is intentional malice from the aliens to fleece our government. They want a better life for themselves and their family. I cannot blame them for that.
Fiscally, yes, there is a problem associated with illegal immigration. Morally, I cannot think of any good reason to "send them back". Remember that the country to "take back" was founded by people that did not want to live under an oppressive ruling body. We took actions to become a free country to allow others the opportunity to thrive and flourish.
Kramer,
No offense taken. Although I agree with you to a certain extent, there comes a time when we have to learn to say no -- for our own self-preservation.
Look at it this way: There is a family of four, the dad works and makes $100,000 a year. One day, a child appears on the doorstep with no mom or dad. The mother says, "this poor child! We have to take him in and feed and clothe him!" The family of four becomes 5. Pretty soon, child after child appear on the doorstep and the parents have 100 children to feed. Their own blood children start to suffer and starve, and before you know it, Social Services comes and takes ALL the children away.
If we keep allowing illegals into our country and providing them healthcare and jobs, pretty soon our own citizens will suffer. I have no problems with LEGAL immigration -- people that come to work in our country, pay taxes and abide by the law. However, if this continues, we will have a much larger issue to deal with.
I do agree with your last argument to a point. The way the system is currently structured, there is a limit to the number of babies that we can support. I think the system is flawed, though. This is a tangential argument that I won't delve into, however I think re-vamping health care and public outreach to become universally accessible would be the way to go. We don't complain about illegals abusing light from lampposts and I don't think we would complain about them using healthcare if it were universally accessible. And yes, this would translate into higher taxes for all (who pay them), but it would solve more problems than create (I think). Granted, this opens up a can of worms that shouldn't be discussed in the same breath (and free light hardly compares to free healthcare). I'm just throwing it out there.
Also, keep in mind that these people go to great lengths to make it into the country. No amount of security will prevent that. You can spend taxpayer money to support these people in a positive way or you can spend the same money to keep people out. Obviously security is a concern. I do understand that. I just think that between spending money to keep them out and spending money to help them stay and eventually become legal, I would lean towards helping them. In this case, I don't think that a few bad apples spoil the bunch.
You can't live in a free society without accepting some of the bad with the good. I just think that "doing something about it" at this point would be wasted energy (read money), since many would take the same lengths to make it back into the country.
PS - The first anonymous comment is not from me :)
Hmm... I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You're starting to delve into Socialist theories, which our forefathers were definately against.
Although I'm not necessarily promoting a mass deportation (that would be a nightmare), I am for securing our borders, having larger penalties for employers that hire illegals, and other items that help to secure our nation a little more.
Did you know that illegals are counted in the population statistics when they decide how many Representitives in the House there should be? Isn't this a slap in the face of democracy, when the numbers of our elected officials are based off of illegal aliens?
Your boy Wooldridge is a crackpot:
"These new immigrants arrive from totally incompatible cultures. They are the seeds of cancer sewn into our social fabric that will eventually destroy our nation. Again, when the rate of immigration exceeds the rate of assimilation, it is a recipe for the annihilation of our civilization."
Further:
"No country on earth today is successful ith ‘multiculturalism’. It’s a lie, it’s a proven failure, it’s dangerous, it’s deadly and it’s growing in America."
Finally:
"Let’s shut down America’s borders. Let’s stop all immigration. Let’s give ourselves a break. Let’s take a moratorium. Our citizens deserve it. There is no immigration allowed in China, India, Bangladesh, Russia, Japan, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Turkey and MOST other countries. Are they suffering race riots, car burnings, language crisis and other problems from immigration? Nope!"
Source: http://www.americandaily.com/article/11105
I find numbers and statistics coming from a fantatical xenophobe to be somewhat suspect.
Fact of the matter is, your beautiful South Riding home was built and is maintained on the back of cheap illegal labor; ask Jayson. No one here wants to do those jobs. If day laborers had unions and actually demanded what they deserved, the cost of labor would skyrocket and you, yes you, would pay for it. The way we're structured, we have a pull for cheap labor. As long as that pull exists, they'll keep coming.
Everyone has the right to a better life. So if I was in their shoes, I'd sure as hell come here, even if it meant minimal pay and life near the poverty line... as long as it was better than where I was.
The real problem is poverty, and that eclipses legals and illegals alike. But fighting poverty is socialist? I agree with Kramer; it's hypocritical for us to call ourselves a moral compass and not do our part to rectify poverty. The idea of social programs is very Christian, yet anti-republican. I am awed by that.
So yeah, "give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door." That is this nation... so, to talk of self-preservation in the face of this alleged attack on our way of life is somewhat myopic.
No, I'm not for shutting down our borders and not letting anyone in. Our country is built on immigration, and I think we should continue to do it. What we should NOT allow, is illegal immigration. The fact that millions of people are living here in our country, reaping the benefits of freedom and doing that tax-free, is not fair.
What about all those immigrants that follow the law and do things the legal way? Isn't that a slap in the face to them to allow illegals to continue to have a free ride?
Being a Christian does not mean you have to tolerate people breaking the law and abusing the system. Come in here legally, and then we'll talk about closing the poverty gap and healthcare issues.
Post a Comment